Hi there a very warm welcome back to the safeti podcast. Where we aim to help you break down the barriers to health safety and environment learning to help you stay motivated, improve your knowledge and maximize your impact. Today on the show we have Laura Alcott, Who is business partner and contract specialist with the HSE recruitment network. Laura is hands-down one of the most knowledgeable HSE recruitment specialists in the UK and she’s thankfully come on the show to share with us some deep insights into what is a more and more competitive HSE market. if you’re trying to improve your career prospects within the HSE space at the moment and you feel like you’re not getting anywhere and you would like to find out where the biggest opportunities lie for you to raise your profile and get noticed by the people that are making the decisions, this is really going to be worth listening to.
[Intro]Welcome to the Safeti podcast with your host all the way from a small Green Island in the wild Atlantic Ocean, Richard Collins.
Richard: I’ve been trying to get this one going for a few weeks and we had our technical difficulties today as well. But we persisted and now I were talking.
Laura: Thank you very much for having me.
Richard: After the pleasure and obviously got you on the show today and we were discussing back and forth what would be valuable for audience here and you were saying that you were lining up a little event with HSE recruitment Network regarding how to stay relevant in the marketplace and hopefully we can shed some light on the difficulties that people are facing and show them some ways that they can take some action to do something about it. Cool, so tell us a bit more about…. I mean some of the people listening to the show will know you already Laura. Just for the ones that don’t can guess, bit about your background just and obviously you’ve been heavily involved in HSE recruitment for quite a while.
Laura: So yeah so I work at HSE recruitment and as you said so I’m a partner over there and I head up the contract division. So I’ve been working with them for, gosh eight nearly nine years now. So pretty long time. so I think I’ve been a pretty good position to know what companies are looking for you know what issues are facing in the marketplace at the moment and hopefully like you said if I can just give you a few tips on how to make yourself stand out and how to make sure that you’re getting where you want to go in your career, I think that would be pretty helpful. So yeah fingers crossed.
Richard: Yeah absolutely I mean you’ve been as you say working in the industry and the recruitment down of it for you know quite a number of years. It’s probably not too many people that have worked in that know specialism for so long and obviously work as hard as you. because you’re going above and beyond all the time doing events like you did recently there and trying to engage with the people in the profession, which is great and one thing I did notice she’s saying there was that you felt that the market was quite saturated at the moment. Can you tell us a bit more about that?
Laura: Yeah of course. Unfortunately it’s kind of unwelcome news and I think most people probably won’t be honest with you about that. I think the message from most people at the moment is that obviously health and safety is really buoyant. Which it is you know we’re not refuting that. There are loads and loads of rolls out there as companies become more and more aware of their expectations in regards of safety and looking after their staff. Obviously there are more jobs becoming available. But there are a staggering number of people that are joining the industry every single year. I mean if you look at the fact that there’s nearly 50,000 people registered with IOSH already and that’s not every safety profession on the UK. That is literally just the ones that have registered with IOSH and then I mean there’s over 600 course providers. You’ve got new qualifications coming out all the time with NCRQ. Some of the new stuff that NEBOSH has been doing. You know there’s a lot of qualified people. So I think what we’re trying to get across to people is just at the moment being qualified by itself it’s just not enough. I think maybe sort of about five years ago having you know a good NEBOSH qualification and working at industry for a couple of years and you could take your pick of jobs and unfortunately I think we’ve got to work a little bit harder than that nowadays.
Richard: I think it’s an extremely important message to get across
to people and you know things are really taking the correct approach and being
honest you know a lot of recruiters I’m sure don’t want to make it
Laura: No, it’s probably not what people want to hear but for every role that we put out or every role that a company puts out there. You’re probably getting nearly a hundred and fifty applications for it and those are applications with no merit. You know most of those people who have got the qualifications. You know we’re not saying all of them are equally good. Of course we’re not the… it’s just to sort of give you an idea of the fact that yeah there’s soft skills and all that extra stuff is so so important nowadays to make you stand out.
Richard: Yeah it keeps coming back to that conversation about soft
skills. Is there anything that you’re seeing from people who are doing it
correctly that you would like to highlight for those listening you know to
Laura: I mean there’s quite a few different ways that you can go
to make yourself stand out. But the thing that always makes a safety
professional stand out for me is massively their engagement in the marketplace.
So that’s not just going in and doing your nine-to-five job. It’s seeing people
at these networking events, seeing them sort of going and learning more about
legislation, being heavily involved and stuff on LinkedIn. Doing all that you
know the CPD with local IOSH branches or whatever it is. It’s really sort
of going above and beyond to show how passionate you are about an industry. I
think that’s what people want most of all at the moment is someone with
passion. The old health and safety model of the clipboard warrior, you know the
old guy who just kind of walked around and yells at people and tells them what
to do; it couldn’t be farther from what people want at the moment. So it’s
really demonstrating that you are that new person, that passionate person. He’s
going to think outside the box, he’s going to make people excited about it;
it’s a subject. Because health and safety is obviously fascinating. There’s a
reason people do it and there’s a reason I’ve been involved with it for so long
and it’s got bad press for a really really long time. But what we’re seeing now
is lots more positive stories out there. Lots more companies with good
initiatives and like I said thinking of different things. So that’s the sort of
stuff I want to see, people really really get involved, really showing that
they love what they do.
Richard: Yeah I guess and with that sort of progression of the profession, it’s hooking up more doors in terms of career development you know and being able to work in organizations and go to you know director level and beyond that as where I would obviously make them more competitive and more attractive to people and I noticed you were saying is well Laura that some companies were stepping away from generalist roles. Can you share some more light on that and what they’re actually doing?
Laura: So this tends to be a little bit more Industry specific. But massively so in manufacturing and it is creeping into the other industries now. We’re seeing that people don’t watch a sword, your generic generalist health and safety manager. What they are tending to look for is someone that they think is a little bit more well-rounded. so very much in the past I think how for safety people have been quite guilty of sort of soloing themselves within the business and thinking where I’m health and safety and I don’t as much they interact with other departments, I sit very much by myself and that’s not something that companies want there. They want to see that you understand the commerciality of the business. So this is why I said it’s quite a big thing in manufacturing. They want you to understand the bottom line. You know the effects of production, the effects of stopping production. So what they tend to look for is someone who does health and safety and something else. Whether that is health safety and quality, safety environmental health safety, facilities, maintenance; whatever it is that they like people that can kind of show that they understand the business a little bit more. So one thing that’s popular definitely as people have come up through the tools in our industry. Because you definitely have a much better idea of what goes into production and what’s important to the company when you’ve come to that sort of reach. so that’s the sort of stuff they’re really looking for, the sort of stuff to emphasize is well again like we said going back to your skills outside of health and safety, what else can you bring to the business. I think at the moment it’s kind of a given when you apply for a role that you can technically do the role. Yeah it’s what else can you do for them.
Richard: Yeah I think it’s great that people from as you say you
know coming up from the tools and knowing businesses from you know being on the
front line or coming up through management or coming from other organizations
and bringing that knowledge through. it’s really what needs to happen and as
you say also there’s other circumstances where maybe someone has a you know as
managed people before and you know the skills that they have from that experience
lends itself well to working in health and safety and environment. I think as
well there probably has been a bit of fear as you say there people have sidled
themselves in the past and through doing that stopped ops killing themselves
and therefore restricted their ability to grow and transition into broader
rules and show their value better and that becomes then a fear of others you
know coming in with those skills doesn’t it.
Laura: [10:11 inaudible] I talk about quite a lot and I completely
agree. I think it has probably held the industry back quite a bit. When we talk
about that soloed effect and they understand what people do it. It’s very much
human nature to do this. But it’s kind of being the idea in the past where I’m
the health and safety professional, I’m the only person with all this
knowledge. If I’m the only person that holds on to this knowledge you know they
can’t get rid of me, they can’t make me redundant, they absolutely 100% need me
and I understand the logic behind that. But that’s just not the way that people
want how the safety professionals to work anymore. Because it’s the old school
mentality. You know they want people that are out there sharing the knowledge
and not just saying you can’t do that. Because that’s against legislation. It’s
getting people engaged and saying you know you’re part of safety too. So yeah I
think the fact that we haven’t sort of shared that knowledge around as much in
the past probably has held us back a little bit as an industry.
Richard: Yeah it’s a big step change isn’t it in terms of the
approach of sort of the you know the protected kind of silo department that has
all the knowledge and doesn’t want to share up. Because then they’re sort of at
risk of losing their authority. It so happens in a lot of organizations and I
hear about it I’m speaking to people, that’s why we’re doing this now
we’re having the conversation. We need to be very honest, we need to be open. We
need to embrace things like commerciality, understand what we’re doing in
our profession impacts the businesses finances along with the well-being of the
workforce and really you would really grasp, because of you can translate
that understanding to the directors of a company. Then it put you in a
Laura: Yes because it does. If you can speak to a director of a
business, the stuff they care about which essentially is the bottom line. Then
you’re much more likely to get that engagement from them. Rather than if you
just go in and say well we can’t do that you know. It’s a much better way of
approaching things in the long run.
Richard: And you’re saying some obviously some companies are
looking for more specialist rules and you know other things, there’s variation
across different industries. You know you are obviously experienced in the
contract end of the things. if you were going from one contract to the other
and you’re struggling to get in because of the levels of competition, would you
advise them if they have one option to go specialists and focus on you know a
specialist area of risk or would you say actually go the other direction and
broaden your skill set out to the likes of quality management and people
leadership that type of thing. What would you say there?
Laura: I mean there’s two sort of ways of looking at it. The first
way is, it depends on you as a person. You know are you someone that prefers to
be the expert on you know one time a little bit of thing or do you want to be
more involved. But anything based on the market is probably that from a
permanent perspective. The more the areas that understand other things, all
that commerciality aspect you know bringing in quality or environmental. That
tends to be quite popular from a permanents of it. But from a contract side yet
the more specialist you are the better. For example most of the contracts that
we do doesn’t tend to be just a health and safety adviser going in doing risk
assessments or anything like that. It tends to be you know a Koshy or adviser
project or it’s looking at specific offshore stuff. You know anything like
that that’s just got a little bit more niche to it, they tend to look at it on
a contract side. So yeah I don’t think if you want to go into the contracting
market, it’s going to hearts and make sure that you know you are quite
specialist in one particular area. Because you still understand health and
safety as a rule. You can still apply for Health and Safety generalist roles. You’re
just giving yourself that a little bit leg up and saying well actually do you
know what? I can market myself as the expert and yeah that’s the sort of stuff
that that’s probably going to help you pick up roles in the long term.
Richard: Yeah I think I suppose you know if someone really drills
down into their previous experience, they could probably specialize maybe
easier than what they think and then flip between the two years necessary as
the market expands and contracts. Because we’re probably at the upper end
of the market cycle now. Would that be a fair assumption from what you see?
Laura: Yeah absolutely. It’s been a bit of a stranger. It’s been
more up and down than usual. But yeah I would probably agree with that where we
are at the moment and what you said about picking between the two sides, I
hundred percent agree with. Because one of the big things we always say to
candidates is you don’t just have one CV that goes to every single role that
you applied for. Because every single role is different. You know as much as
the day-to-day is the same that company wants a different person or a different
approach or so our advice is always to write a CV specific for that role you’re
applying for. So that way you can have look this is my specialist area of
knowledge and this is my profile for when they need adviser specialist. But
actually yeah I can send you info if you want a generalist. If you want me to
come in and just hold the fort then, I can do that as well. So that would be a
big bit of advice definitely is to every single application should be
completely different from the last in my view.
Richard: That’s good to hear that from you, from what you’ve
experienced and it’s something that I wanted to ask you about and from a
recruiters perspective you may think this is a good or a bad thing, not going
to judge before you tell me. but I tend to hear obviously ask a lot of
questions about the industry and I have a bit of an online presence and speak
to a lot of people and I see in here a lot of people chopping and changing from
company to company within the sector and you know not being able to commit to
even permanent positions for long periods of time, I’m not sure what’s causing
this. But can you give us any insight on into what you’ve experienced and what
your views are on it and whether you see that as being you know damaging for
those candidates and their future sort of prospects.
Laura: Yeah again probably not something you want to hear. But yeah it’s not ideal. When you are applying for a role, it’s not necessary if the recruiter either this might be a HR manager or a safety manager that’s looking at CV. it does tend to put a little bit of doubt in your mind. When you see someone has moved and moved and moved and moved and laughed at their contractor obviously. Companies are always looking for someone with longevity that’s going to commit to them. Now that doesn’t mean that you will never get a job ever again just because you’ve made a couple of bad decisions. But the important thing is to make sure that you can very clearly explain why those changes happened. Because people understand that things happen out of your control. Whether it’s been a couple of redundancies role or you know you’ve been missed sold something and it wasn’t at all what they told you it’s going to be. We get that, you know we’re human. But what I would always say is maybe even if you just put a little exploration on the CV itself. Just too sort of counter that negative impact before it even has a chance to register. Because yeah we are really looking [17:31 inaudible] for the partner recruitment that have had a bit of stability. Most companies see the ideal candidate someone who isn’t actively even looking to move. Usually they want us to be sort of tapping up people that aren’t looking for jobs. They’re quite happy where they are. Because they’re you know they can often be some of the better talent and they debt then they’re moving genuinely, because it’s a role that they’re fascinated by and not just because it’s an [17:59 inaudible]. Pay us a couple of grand more or whatever. So yeah I think it’s quite important to get that definition on the CV if that’s an issue that you face in the past.
Richard: As you say get a little bit more proactive in terms of
trying to explain what has happened there and don’t necessarily… it’s not
always necessarily negative and there could be genuine reasons for it.
Laura: Yeah people understand. Like I said people [18:19 inaudible] change,
things happen. We do get that. But you want to get that explanation in front of
people. It’s actually, I’m probably giving away some tricks of the trade. But
it is a bit of an old sales technique is that you need to counter something
before they say it. If you’re thinking that something negative on your CV, then
they’re probably going to see it and they’re probably going to think the same
thing. So just make sure that you have a reason for it before they’ve got a
chance to think negatively about it. It’s always going to make you look a
little bit better.
Richard: Following on from that sort of theme, the CV’s; we’ve talked about a lot. I’m sure your [19:01 inaudible] talking about CV’s. But I’ve been guilty of it myself in terms of… private jobs can be demoralizing. It can be very devil to get motivated to try and differentiate yourself and sometimes it’s hard to put a finger on what it is that stops you from doing something above and beyond. I know you guys are always sort of plugging the idea of having a social media presence. How that can really you know influence and impact the way you’re perceived and obviously then lead to potential job opportunities and so on. can you give us any idea to what your thoughts are on this and whether you’ve actually, you know whether there’s any tangible experiences or examples that you can tell us about where you know where it’s actually being really positive for someone.
Laura: Yeah of course. Well this is probably one of my
favorite subjects ever. So if you are in any way connected to me on LinkedIn,
you’ll see that I’m pretty much always on there. Social media, it’s something
you cannot get away from at the moment. So I don’t care if you like it or you
don’t; you could kind of have to get on board with it. Because it’s just the
way things are going. Most agencies, most companies anyone that’s kind of recruiting; they
always do a little bit of a background search. You know if I see someone see me
that’s interesting whether they apply it or it’s on the database whatever, I
always go and have a little look on LinkedIn and see what I can find out about
them. See, one if you know if the information is correct that they sent me
across here. How up to date is it. Is there any sort of red flags that
are showing up and I’m not saying we go and search Facebook or Twitter or any
of that? We do keep it professional stick to LinkedIn but. You do get some
pretty big clues from LinkedIn what a person is like. So having some sort of
presence is massively important. But actually then doing something with that
presence is the biggest thing altogether. We see so many people that just think
right okay so I’ll set up my LinkedIn account. it’s basically just a CV on that
social media site and then that’s it and then I’m done, I’ll just sit back and
wait for someone to call me and then they complain that LinkedIn doesn’t get
them a job. Because that’s not what LinkedIn is for. LinkedIn is yeah
connecting to people. But connecting and engaging and networking, not just sort
of sitting back and waiting for the phone to ring. So that’s my big thing with
LinkedIn, with social media is you’ve got to be engaged. You’ve got to actually
be talking to people, commenting. You know I say writing articles, people are
really scared about that. But it’s so easy to do. You do not have to be you
know Shakespeare. You don’t have to have a degree in English. You just have to
have an opinion. It as easy as that. So for example, we had all the big
case recently with prepped and obviously that poor girl died from missing
allergen information on that. So it’s something I’ve read quite a lot
about. I found it really fascinating. So I just dashed together a quick little
blog piece. It’s literally two paragraphs just on my thoughts on it. You know
this is what I understood from reading it, this is what I thought about
it. What does everyone else think and that was brilliant. Because all the
sudden you’ve got all these people that you’ve been connected to you forever,
who never ever talk to anyone. Just getting involved and I can see their
passion for safety. I can see their angle, you know where they’re coming from,
what their approach is and it just makes them more of a well-rounded person. You
know CV’s are just two dimensional at the end of the day. They’re not you,
they’re not a representation of you as a person. They’re just a representation
of what you’ve done and people by people.
Richard: Yeah I have to agree and you know there’s probably not a
lot of people that are really truly utilizing the power that’s on social media
at the moment I would say. I try and get involved and try and create
conversations at times and you know it’s not easy. It’s not easy, sometimes you
hear crickets and you think ‘what have I said!?’.I understand people’s fear on
it and I put my hands up and say every time I post something I’m
second-guessing everything I’m saying and you know what’s this person going to
think, is that going to be misunderstood etc. etc. but I guess you just have to
get over that a bit and you know if you’re genuine and you know in
the most part that will come through.
Laura: Even if you are misunderstood that’s not necessarily a bad
thing. Because again it’s just starting that conversation. If someone comes
back and says oh you know, I don’t agree with what you said there at all. Because
this is why. Well you’ve opened a dialogue there and all of a sudden you’re
getting someone else’s point of view and you can either argue your point of
view, you can change your point of view. But you’re still having that dialogue
and engaging with people. So yeah I personally don’t think it matters. You know put
out there what you will and see what comes back from it. But just as long as
it’s real with you.
Richard: Yeah I think one thing that struck me someone said
to me just a couple of days ago was that someone who sort of trying make their
way in the Industry, they were saying that you know they were taking part in
some conversations. but sometimes it can get a little bit of a you know a
battle of wits or who you can be the most intellectual you know and it puts the
fear into people you know from contributing in case they’re sort of shot
Laura: So I’ll give you a tip here. If you write something and
someone is horrible to you or they’re nasty back to you or they make you feel
like an idiot, you can delete your comment. Just get rid of it like it never
happened. I’d rather people tried and then delete it. Okay I was wrong,
I’m going to take that back. But at least you tried.
Richard: Absolutely, just actually developing on from that and
something I really think people can set themselves apart if they do take this
seriously. Now I’m not saying that I’ve done it. Obviously I make podcasts
which is what we’re doing here now. I guess that is a version of it. But
actually putting things up like training sessions, seminars or any sort of type
of work that you’ve done; like people just aren’t doing that. But I mean what
do you think about that? Do you see people doing it?
Laura: Yeah not enough at all. I don’t think most people realize
that you can put that sort of stuff up there. So on your profile there’s a
section where you can upload documentation. But it doesn’t have to be paper
documentation. So on mine I’ve got some company brochures. I’ve got some videos
of me speaking, I’ve got some PowerPoint presentations from webinars I’ve done.
You can show that on you’re before and you can share it as actual content going
out into the world as well. The most engagement on LinkedIn comes from what
they call native content. Which is you know your own videos and things like
that and that’s again it’s just such a great way of showing who you are as a
person. So say I’m looking for a trainer for a company right, the training
qualifications are all pretty similar. You’ve all worked and same sort of
companies. I’ll just kind of take you on your word for it that you’re a good
trainer. But if I’ve got a hundred of you all applying for the same role,
it’s very hard to differentiate. But if then I’m looking at all your social
media, I’m looking at your LinkedIn and your LinkedIn it’s got testimonials
from all your students saying how brilliant you are. You know what the pass
rates like and then you’ve got videos up there of you actually teaching and I
can watch and think, God yeah I’d listen to that guy or girl. Then you’re
the person I’m going to call first of those hundred. All that stuff just all of
sudden ads personality to your cane and makes you a real person. That’s what
this is basically about. You’re trying to make your CV stand out and make the
hiring manager realized that you’re a real well rounded person that they can
see in their company. So yeah absolutely look at getting those videos up,
getting those documentation up there or even yeah if you look at there’s a
group; the IOSH strategy approach. Who are really really good at social media
and their events are brilliant as well to be fair to them. But if you go and
look at their channel, they’ve got their committee. They just literally
like from do little pieces on video and they share stuff that they’re thinking
about or stuff they’ve been talking about and it gets such good engagement and
you can really see who they are and what the group’s about and I think that’s
why they get so many people turning up to it. So yeah absolutely just great.
Richard: Yeah I think so. I think it’s or links back nicely to what we’ve mentioned you know just earlier on there. About the skills that the companies are looking for are the soft skills. Your ability to engage, your personality and the social media profiles now is just a perfect way to actually demonstrate that. Again it’s probably a little bit of fear within people that they’re not actually doing it. But the fact that people aren’t doing is the exact opportunity that exists you know. Because if you do it then you are the one percent amongst the rest.
Laura: Absolutely yeah there’s hardly anyone doing it and
everybody should be doing it. So yeah if you’re the first to sort of hop on
that bandwagon, then yeah you’re going to stand out head and shoulders above
Richard: People will listen to us whether they take action or not
is you know it’s up to them. but if there was one piece of action, if
there is one action that you would advise people to take after listening to our
discussion here to try and you know get them to step forward, what area would
you ask them to focus on.
Laura: So it’s going to sound like a bit of a broad answer. But
it’s because I want you to take it and do what feels right with you for it. But
it for me it’s all coming back to personality. I need to see who you are and
you can do that in any way you want. Whether that’s on social media, whether
that’s in person going to networking or sharing videos or writing blogs or
whatever it is. But just make sure that we can find your personality. I mean
I’ll give you a great example of we held the Christmas party, the Birmingham
Christmas party for the women in safety group last week. We had a girl come
across, I hope she won’t mind me saying; a lady called Hannah and she’d been to
one of our events previously. She’s quite new into the industry. She was just
looking for some help and support and she came to our original event on yeah
achieving your career aspirations. She was really really brave. She plucked up
the courage to come over and speak to me at the end. She asks for a couple of
tips. I saw her sort of speak for few people. But I could see she was quite
nervous about it. Last week we had the women in safety event, she came along to
that one as well and the difference was astounding. She sort of walked in you
know full of purpose, she was speaking to people. She was making sure people
knew who she was. That girl sticks in my head bang. The second I’ve got any
sort of role for her or for someone like that, she’s the first person I’m going
to call. Because I’ve seen her personality and I’ve seen what she’s about and
so it just makes you memorable. So yeah that for me I don’t know how you
show it. But just show me your personality and make sure it’s real, make sure
it’s genuine. Because you know people see through it if you’re trying to
pretend to be something. People will like you for who you are and what you’re
passionate about and that’s probably the most important thing. because then
you’re going to find a company that is equally passionate about the stuff that
you’re passionate about and wants to progress in the same way you want to
progress. So whether that might take you a little bit longer. Because you are
being a little bit more discerning then and saying you know they don’t need my
values or they’re not the same sort of people as me. I think that’s the right
way to go. So yeah so show me personality in any way, any form; just make sure we
know who you are.
Richard: I think that’s a great bit of advice Laura to finish this
conversation on and I know there’s lots and lots of passionate people out
there. Lots of them are obviously listening. We’ll be listening to this podcast
when it’s released and obviously for some time to come. So hopefully they can
take that and you know as you say take action on it. Go and show people their
personalities and you know let companies know who they are, what they’re about
and the results will come in the end.
Laura: Absolutely yeah and if anyone wants further advice you know
they’re more than welcome to find me on LinkedIn. Like I said you can’t really
miss me. I’m on their pretty much all day every day. Just send me a message and
if we can help you or give you some advice or point me in the right direction,
then we’ll certainly try.
Richard: No worries Laura. I’ll put a link at the bottom of the show notes to your personal profile if that’s okay and a link to the HSE recruitment network as well for anyone that wants to have a browse on what jobs are available any time. Thanks for coming on the show, it’s been something I’ve been looking forward to and I think we’ve got loads of great value for those listening and hopefully we can do something in the future to continue to help people.
Laura: Yeah absolutely thanks so much for having me on. I’ve
really enjoyed it.
Richard: No worries, good stuff take care of yourself. I’ll talk
to you soon.
Richard: So that was our call with Laura Alcott. I really hope I can get Laura back on the show again in the future. As you can hear she’s really really passionate about the HSE profession and industry and her dedication comes through in her work. Please link up with both me and Laura on LinkedIn. We will be talking about the subject on LinkedIn in the next few days after this is released and we’d really love to hear your thoughts on the discussion. Also it will be cool to hear your experiences either positive or negative. What has worked, what hasn’t worked? When you try to grow your network offline or you try to grow your online social media presence to enhance your career. That brings us to the end of another episode. Thanks for joining me. If you haven’t already done so, please take a second if you can to join our community at www.safetipodcast.com to help influence our future direction. You can also subscribe to the podcast on Apple or Google podcasts. If you can I’d really appreciate it if you can leave is a quick honest review. So until next time keep stepping out of your comfort zone, keep making a positive impact on health safety and the environment and hopefully we’ll catch you again soon.
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